Ep. 019: Overcoming Perfectionism, Procrastination & Self-Doubt with Christine McAlister
I've yet to meet a woman entrepreneur who doesn't struggle with perfectionism, procrastination, and self-doubt. And usually all three go hand-in-hand. While these things love to creep up again and again, there are some simple ways to overcome them so that you can hit your goals and have more confidence in your business. And we talk about what's really going when they rear their ugly heads.
Join me as I talk with Christine McAlister of Life with Passion for a honest conversation around what holds us back.
Christine McAlister is a business coach, speaker, and the bestselling author of The Income Replacement Formula: Seven Simple Steps To Doing What You Love And Making Six Figures From Anywhere. Her company, Life With Passion, helps high-achievers all over the world to replace their incomes (and then some!) and quit and stay out of their 9-5s, by building businesses out of their passions.
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Erika Tebbens: This interview with Christine McAllister is going to just rock your world if you are someone who struggles with perfectionism procrastination or self-doubt in your business. And really who doesn't, right? So for those of you who don't know, Christine McAllister is a business coach, speaker, and the best-selling author of the Income Replacement Formula: Seven Simple Steps to Doing What You Love and Making Six Figures from Anywhere.
Her company, Life with Passion helps high achievers all over the world to replace their incomes and then some, and quit and stay out of their nine to five by building businesses out of their passions. So, as you listen to this, if you have any AHAs or takeaways or anything, and I'm sure you will, because this episode is jam-packed with amazing stuff from Christine, be sure to take a screenshot, especially if you're listening on your phone, take a screenshot, go over to Instagram, post your takeaways in your stories and be sure to tag us.
So I'm @erikatebbensconsulting if you're not already following me. And Christine is at life and then the letter w and then the word passion. So @lifewpassion over on Instagram. So post and tag us say hi, and there's going to be some more links to Christine and all the places you can find her those will be right in the show notes.
So without further ado here is the interview.
Hi, Christine. Welcome to the, Sell It! Sister podcast. I am so, so, so excited that you're here. I know that the listeners just heard about you in your formal bio at the top of this episode, but why don't you tell me a little bit more about just your whole business background, because I know that you, you've been self-employed for a while, so why don't you talk more about that?
Christine McAlister: Yeah. So Life with Passion is actually my fourth successful business and I, uh, ran an online marketing agency for a decade, which I now bring to my work helping high achievers to start and grow their own businesses. Um, I have bred Arabian horses, a very rare strain of Arabian horse for many years and a lot huge animal lover have horses to have rescue dogs, uh, and grew up with just about any pocket pet you can imagine. Cause we didn't have horses or dogs at that time.
So now I'm fulfilling my childhood dreams by having a bunch of both. And uh, really, I am just like all of you listening, just like you, Erika has super passionate about running businesses that we love doing work, that we love and doing it in the way that, uh, we are made to.
So like what I call the three P's are personality, passions and preferences cause we're all so different. And we, we know that there's no one right cookie-cutter way to build a business. But I think a lot of times when we're getting started, we listened to one person who says, Oh, you have to do this thing or that thing.
And then we wind up feeling like totally overwhelmed or stuck because it's not who we are.
Erika Tebbens: Yes.
Christine McAlister: So I'm excited to talk about like that stuff with you because we both know having been in business for a long time, that there's so much to learn there. And that's why I do what I do.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I love that. And I think that it's really crucial because I know a lot of times when I'm working with people, they, it's that anxiety that bubbles up from, uh, different people, you know, different, you know, experts or gurus or whoever that are saying, you know, you have to do this.
Like, you know, you have to be on LinkedIn or you have to have a Facebook group or this or that, or the other. And not that any of those things are inherently bad or wrong, but yeah, if it doesn't fit your personality, it's just, it's not gonna really work for you. Like if you have to force it, it's not going to be fun and if it's not fun, you won't do it.
Christine McAlister: Exactly. Exactly.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah.
Christine McAlister: And if it's not fun, what's the point? What's the point of running your own business, if it's not fun and you don't love it, otherwise you might as well just go get a freaking job.
Erika Tebbens: Yes, exactly. I was just talking to a friend on that, uh, a friend about that on Voxer right before you hopped on.
So I completely agree, and I love it. So you're your business now? I love the name of your business. So Life with Passion; because I am all about that. And you have a freaking book. That's so cool. Tell us just before we get into the meat of what you're talking about today, tell us a little bit about your book.
Christine McAlister: Yeah, thank you. So my book is called The Income Replacement Formula: Seven Simple Steps to Doing What You Love and Making Six Figures from Anywhere and to be honest with you, I had never, I love to read and I love to write, but I had never planned on writing a book, just like a lot of us never planned on maybe starting a business, but what happened was a couple of years into this business, I realized that 75% of my clients and counting had quit their jobs while working with me.
And so an and you know that doesn't didn't count all the ones who were working on replacing their income, who were already out of jobs. Right. And they came to get to me to work on building their business. They had already quit. So I realized that there was something there so that whether people were in a job and wanting to get out, or whether they were just wanting to make six figures in their business, the work that we were doing together, so I was working with clients one-on-one and still do, um, It was working.
It is working. So I decided to write this book to make it accessible to everyone. Right? Maybe some people don't want to coach aren't ready for a coach, whatever, but they want to listen to me, jump around, and hop around on an audiobook. Right? It's recorded audiobook, or they want to read and see what's possible for them and figure out which of the steps that they're on and how to apply that, uh, to grow their business wherever they are today. So that's why I wrote The Income Replacement Formula.
Erika Tebbens: I love that. And you generously give away a free chapter of it. So, um, I know at the end, I'll touch on all the places that people can find you and I'll have it all in the show notes as well, but in case people want to bookmark it right now, if they go to lifewithpassion.com/freechapter, they can get that.
And I will say, I have read your book and I loved your book and it is incredibly down to earth and it makes perfect sense, um, For those people who are just, you know, fresh to their business, uh, right in the early stages. And like you said, want that help without necessarily having to hire a coach right from the get-go because yeah, it's, you know, when you're getting started, it can be hard to like juggle all those investments and expenses and, and all that stuff.
So I love, love, love that you offer that and it's such a good, quick, easy, fun read. So, but also really.
Christine McAlister: Thank you so much, you know, what's so funny is that I think, well, a lot of us like teach what we need to learn. Right? Cause then we get to keep learning it. And whenever I catch myself getting overwhelmed, even today, I'll be like, it really is simple.
If I will allow it to be and I did write the book on this. So I think I can just like go back and check in on which of these steps I need to come back to and breathe for a hot minute.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I knew I, it, gosh, it's so funny. I, as we're recording this, I'm about to relaunch my website and so I've been going through and doing all this stuff for me that like a lot of times is easy. I can explain to a client like, Oh, you know, this copy here or do that, or blah, blah, blah but then when it's my own, it's like this existential crisis.
Christine McAlister: Yes!
Erika Tebbens: And I'm like, let me take a step back. What would I tell myself if I were my own client?
Christine McAlister: One hundred percent.
Erika Tebbens: We need those reminders. Um, so awesome. And I think, uh, I was not intending this to be a segue, but I feel like this is a good segue into talking about those things that get in our way, such as procrastination, perfectionism, self-doubt, all of that, which I will say when I, I did a poll in my Facebook group over in the Sell It! Sisterhood.
And I gave them three topics that you were an expert on and this topic was two to one, the winner. And I was, I was a little bit surprised. Um, but also, you know, kind of not because I know, you know, my audiences is women and this is something that women really struggle with.
Uh, and so I am really excited to get your thoughts on this and your expertise on this, because I know I'll, you know, I'll be honest. I have seen in myself over time that it's, uh, in, in my clients and everything that it really is so much more us like internally that holds ourselves back rather like we might say, Oh, it's because I don't have enough Instagram followers, or I don't have a big enough email list or whatever, but those are just like small metrics that can be dealt with, but really it starts with us.
And so, yeah, I just, I am so excited to, to hear your thoughts on this. So, um, so yeah, is there, of those three. I mean, how do you see that it really, they really show up and impact women. And if you want to, you know, talk about them collectively or break them down one by one, like just have at it. Cause I feel like, yeah, we, we could have a whole really juicy conversation about these three.
Christine McAlister: Yeah. I'm really excited about this too and I think that if you're listening to this, you probably have dealt with all three of these things. I think they all go hand in hand in hand. And I think they, in my experience, working with women all over the world, it, these three things are common to every single high achiever and chances are they're listening to this.
You would identify as a high achiever because we're not lazy. Like people who started their own businesses, ain't lazy, right? So it's not, I would say it's all three of these; we probably identify one more, one or two more than others, but I think we have such a misunderstanding about why we procrastinate, why we act like perfectionist, why we're filled with self-doubt and we beat ourselves up about it and treat it like, um, treat these things like they are either character flaws or behavioral flaws or habits to be trained out of.
And while you could argue that these things are habits. They are not fatal flaws. And I think a lot of times we have a story of like, Oh, if I wasn't such a perfectionist if I wasn't such a procrastinator and then it becomes an excuse and a reason why we don't succeed.
And so I want to see that change. I think that needs to change like universally and I think it starts with identifying why we procrastinate for instance. And when I learned why we truly procrastinate. I feel like it shifted my whole view on this topic. So I, there's a guy named Nick Ortner and he's actually like a tapping EFT expert that's his deal.
So I like tapping and I was listening to one of his tapping scripts one time and just totally out of the blue, he blindsided and said, TA uh, procrastination comes from unresolved emotions. Procrastination comes from unresolved emotions and I was like, say what, it doesn't come from me not having the right planner.
Cause I'm like a total Mac on my first day time or in middle school. I'm that kid, you know, uh, it doesn't come from me making to-do lists wrong. It doesn't come from me not having the right schedule or the right personality type or the right routine or whatever. Not that those things aren't important, but when you're dealing with unresolved emotions, that trumps everything right?
Because we're dealing with our unconscious minds, 95% of our brain. Guess what's going to win if you're trying to consciously tell yourself, Oh, you shouldn't procrastinate. False, right? We're going to lose every time now. So predict procrastination comes from unresolved emotions, all the people that I've pulled for procrastination, perfectionism and self-doubt, I have found that the primary emotion is fear. Right?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah.
Christine McAlister: It's fear. Fear of criticism, fear of failure, a fear of not being perfect fear of not knowing what you're doing, messing something up. Right. So when we recognize that, like we're actually just dealing with a fear problem, it totally changes the way that we quote-unquote, treat the problem right?
Now we're not trying to rationalize. You. Can't reason with fear, it's fear.
Erika Tebbens: Right.
Christine McAlister: Make sense?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that it's, uh, so many of those things resonate with me. I have, I, I was totally the daytime or person as well like I have always loved, like back to school, time has always been my favorite. I'm like, Ooh, you know, new notebooks, new pens, new planner.
Like, I was always that girl as well. And it's funny because I definitely have this very stubborn, rebellious streak inside of me, but I am also the total, like Lisa Simpson teacher's pet through and through. So I, I find in myself that even though I am a high achiever, even though I can really, you know, produce and get things done when you're an entrepreneur, there really is no, like you're, you're kind of just out on your own. There's no rubric. There's no like, well, if I just do this, then everything is going to be perfect. Like there is when you're in school, where are they, you know, the teacher gives you the rubric or you study really hard for the test. And then you do really well.
Or, you know, you, you ace the test or you write that excellent paper. And you're like, yeah, I just, I followed the rubric. I did what they told me to do. And now. I'm success, you know, quote-unquote successful. Um, but yeah, it can, so it can feel really those, like it, it bubbles up those weird emotions inside of me with procrastination of the what if this isn't right? Like, what if I don't get it right? Or what if I do all this work and nothing happens and I've wasted all this time. Like, there is a lot of that and, and I, I'm definitely so much better cause I've been working on myself for years, but even that well, I'm just going to research it a little more.
I'm just going to research it. No, I'm not procrastinating. I'm just learning. I'm just researching. Like, that's just, Oh my gosh. That is my, that used to be one of my biggest sell sabotages.
Christine McAlister: Oh my gosh. So our, our mutual friend, uh, to this stuff, Denise Thomas calls it, procrastinate learning.
Erika Tebbens: Yes.
Christine McAlister: Just Google it. If I just Google some more then eventually I'll come to the answer. Well, that never happens or we scroll or whatever. What winds up happening is we, we feel more overwhelmed because then we go into decision fatigue, analysis, paralysis, right. Whatever. And, and it's a form of, self-sabotage like a hundred percent, even if we have no intention of it being that way, or we're like, no, I really am researching to try to find the best thing.
Right. Well, what, what winds up leading to is you not getting anything done. You know, and I think that, um, I totally identify with you, like total teacher's pet, like totally wanted just to, to do the thing and, you know, check the box and get the A and this is larger discussion, but I really feel like school and I used to be a professor.
So like I've been on both sides of it. I really feel that school trains us to be really good employees, unless we were lucky enough to go to some kind of like progressive school where the system is set up to train us, to be really good employees, because that's what most people do. They, most people have jobs.
And so when we become entrepreneurs or we're trying to become entrepreneurs, it's really freaking scary because for the first time we don't have a rubric, we don't have a syllabus. We don't have a here's how to get an A, we don't have a job description that if you score well, we'll get you your cost of living raise.
Right? So when we are trying to succeed, really we don't trust ourselves. And, and that's one of the biggest reasons we procrastinate because we don't know how to hit the mark. Right. And so I know that this is what you do in Success Squad and this is certainly what I do with my one-on-one clients; so much of the work is helping us get to know ourselves.
And how we work and how we self-sabotage and how we want to make money and bring in clients and how we want to work rather than trying to fit ourselves in this person's box or that person's box like we were talking about earlier. But when we don't do that work first, it leads to a lack of clarity, which then leads to feeling overwhelmed, which then causes more procrastination and perfectionism because we're scared we're going to pick wrong.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. And so what are, uh, and again, I, I completely agree that this three tie so closely together, so what are some things that you suggest that people can do when they start to kind of turn inward and look at, you know, what, what are the emotions bubbling up? What is really happening behind the procrastination?
What are some ways that they can kind of like unpack that and sift through it so they can actually start some forward momentum?
Christine McAlister: Yeah. So I think there are several different ways to approach this, but I know that we're all strategy focused here. Right? So it's kind of like choosing the right strategies rather than going, Oh, well I just need a better planner or a, um, a better calendar system or I just need to move it to my to-do list for tomorrow.
And then do that again under the, to rebuild, to-do list gets longer and longer. Um, I think that one thing that you can do is you can choose just one thing, just one thing to do. And if you can identify, this is the thing that I know would move my business forward the most, or that my gut tells me it would move my business forward the most.
Then give yourself permission to just do that. But a lot of times, like you might be listening to this thinking, Oh, I just need to do a website. Well, it's a massive project and you might've been waiting until you have like a whole day or a whole weekend to do it, and then you never get around to it because whoever has that.
Right. Um, or you sit down and you finally do have a chunk of time, and guess what? You scroll Facebook or Google because you're overwhelmed, so you procrastinate. Right. So I think it's like starting by just picking one thing that you know, could build your business.
So that's like the first action step- solving for the right problem. And then, and then what you can do today is just do that one thing for five minutes. Like you might not even know how to milestone this out, right? You might not even know how to open up project management software and divided into stages or whatever. If it's a big project doing a website, you know, designing an offer, packaging pricing.
It might feel really overwhelming, but if you could set an alarm on your phone and for five minutes and get through the discomfort of starting it, then your brain is going to go, okay, we're safe. We didn't die. Right. Because the reason it's trying to keep you stuck in fear is that. It's scared it's just going to be too uncomfortable for you.
So it's trying to keep you safe, you know, and I like to say to your brain safe is same, even if it sucks, right? So you might be sitting in crap and, and find yourself not being able to move out of it because same as safer doing something different. So if you can do this for just five minutes, then you are telling your brain it's okay, we've got this.
You may feel like working on it for longer, you may not, but either way, you have started, you have broken that ice. And that is a really powerful way to get something done, even in just five minutes a day if you're one of those people who has really limited time, like most of us, or to break the ice and go; this feels okay, I want to work on it for another five minutes.
You will actually do that, you will be amazed at what you can implement and complete with that, like simple start.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I love that. And it, uh, there's one thing that I have always, um, suggested for people who truly do have such limited time available to them. Uh, and this is something now it's easier. Um, because I homeschool my son.
So like, I totally, I mean, gosh, the thing you said about school and employees, whatever, like, yes I am here for, I went to school to be a teacher as well, I wasn't teaching. And so I'm, I'm fully on board with that. And it's a big part of the reason why we actually ended up homeschooling but now that my, my son is 14, he's very self-sufficient.
But in the younger years, um, because we started when he was in, uh, like first, second grade age and so all those younger years where I was running a business and he really needed me to like, be there with them, to teach him to do things, to take him to, uh, programs with other homeschoolers and so my actual working availability was super limited.
So I used to do power hours and it's always amazing to me when you really do, like, like you said, just the five minutes or when you really constrict that time and you're like, okay, his is all I'm going to do, then how much you can actually achieve and how quickly that time goes and how much momentum gets going.
It's like, it's kind of like, if you look at your whole house, you might not want to clean your whole house, but could you just clean the dishes in the sink? And chances are like, maybe once the dishes and the sink are done, then you'll want to wipe the counters. And then when you wipe the counter, you know, it's like you give a mouse, a cookie, but you have to do that first, that first little thing.
So, yeah, that's, I love that because it's something just compressing your time and, and sort of forcing yourself to just do that one hard thing for a short sprint. It's kind of amazing what comes out of that.
Christine McAlister: Yeah. And honestly, if you're listening to this and you're like, I don't even know what my thing is.
I don't even know what I should be working on. It's so cool and okay and great. If you just pick something. Pick the thing that's in front of you and do it because that's going to get you clarity on whether that's something you want to keep doing, like keeping doing is going to work all that stuff instead of just spinning, spinning, spinning, righT or throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, which is not going to help you get anywhere.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, it's I kind of like live and breathe by the Marie Forleo quote, that clarity comes through action and there is, there really is so much stuff and I'm sure because you had four businesses where you would agree that there's, there's more, that gets left on the cutting room floor from trial and then being like, Oh no, I don't, I don't like that.
Or I don't want to do it, or I don't want to do it that way or, yeah, that was fun for a while. Now I'm done with it. Like there's so much that gets put aside, but you only know what to put aside by doing, because the clarity in what you do want to keep doing, or what is actually working only comes from the doing.
Christine McAlister: Yes, exactly. So do do do right, but in a way that feels good in a way that feels aligned, right? You homeschool your son. I have two young kids and, and so both of our businesses need to be really, really streamlined. And I'm sure that's true of all of you listeners too. Right? So like the simpler, the better, but the truth is that, unless you're really clear on this stuff, it's, you're, you're naturally going to over-complicate it, you're naturally gonna make yourself busy when you don't need to be because that's what feels normal as an employee.
Right? How much of school is busy work? How much of work is busy work as an employee? And so again, it's just how we're trained. And I think like unless you get some real help to change this stuff in one way or another change, these habits, you're just going to revert to what, what you learned cause that's what's normal.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And even the, the being used to, um, like working 40 hours a week. Uh, it can be, I mean, I'll speak for myself that's a really hard thing to unlearn, especially when you have, if you have a partner who is working outside 40 or more hours a week, cause you start to get that guilt of like, well, shouldn't, I also be working 40 hours a week.
I mean, it's my business and it's my rules and whatever, but I feel like I should, which I find when I used to try to do that, I wasn't actually getting more done. I was just extending the time it took me to do stuff like it was just not, it was not helpful.
Christine McAlister: Yes. Oh my gosh. A hundred percent. I just got, so I'll just be totally transparent here and say that my, my youngest is six weeks old as we're recording this and, um, talk, talk about a power hour. Like this is all I'm doing in my business today because it's really fun for me and I love you.
And that's part of my business model. Right. But stepping away in a way that I never had, not even with my first daughter to be alone with my thoughts and totally separate from the business, um, has been so powerful because I was able to see just what you said exactly how busy I was making myself and exactly how simple it can be.
Now, I'm not saying to go get pregnant and have a baby so that you can figure all of this out. But what I am saying is sometimes taking a day off a week, a full day off a week could be the clarity that you need to come back and be that much more productive. Like you're talking about to be able to kill it in five minutes or with a power hour because we get to this region of inefficiency, where we operate when we're just constantly showing up and doing the same things over and getting more and more tired and you know, every day.
And when we get a little bit of a break, even though it might seem counterintuitive way, I take a whole day and don't do anything on my business might be the most productive thing you can do. Right.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, absolutely. Like, yeah, just like going on a walk or doing something fun or enjoyable or reading a book like it's, it's in those moments usually where I'm doing something completely, not business-related that I have like an AHA moment about my business. So yeah. So I, and now the next one, and I will say as somebody who, uh, I refer to myself as like a recovering perfectionist. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings on the perfectionism part of it.
So what about those people? Cause so then I know a lot of times, again, because they're tied so closely together, but I'm sure people come to you and say like, well, Christine, it's not that I'm procrastinating, I'm working, I'm very busy. But like, I can't, I can't launch this, or I can't do this until it's quote-unquote. Perfect.
So, what is that? Let's talk, let's deep dive into why it's really going on because a lot of high achieving women also self-identify as perfectionist.
Christine McAlister: Totally, totally. And so I think that a lot of times perfectionism comes from tying our work to our worth, which I think most high achievers do.
Erika Tebbens: Yes.
Christine McAlister: I'm the oldest. I, uh, got a lot of positive attention by achieving, growing up, right. I'm the oldest of four. So there was a lot going on in our family. And, um, I am a typical driven, uh, need to please kind of person right in recovery from those things. And so the perfectionist piece really comes in. It's again, it goes back to fear, fear of being rejected.
Fear of not being found out as not good enough fear of not, uh, earning our keep, proving our worth, being recognized for having accomplished things, uh, being a contributor, right? If you have a hard time thinking about taking a day off or walk away from your business for any amount of time or. Um, not proving to people that you're working hard in order to charge what you charge.
You probably have a worthiness and deserving issue, you're in good company, I'm raising my hand right there with you, but that can lead to a lot of anxiety that causes them. Because if we get found out, quote-unquote, by putting something out there that's not perfect. It could be devastating to our self-worth when it's built on having this facade of perfection.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, absolutely. I, it's kind of funny because I actually was just, um, like I mentioned, going through, um, redoing my website and everything. And so I was, uh, I was redoing my page for the Success Squad and I realized right in the top banner, I had made a, uh, this graphic, like this header graphic for the top of the page and the, the like the little motto for success squad is, um, clarity, community and confidence.
And I realized other, thank you. So other places, um, where I had the same image, it was, everything was fine. Somehow this, you know how you go, like you're making stuff in Canva or wherever you do, and you download, you know, different versions of something.
So somehow the version that had been on there that had been on there for a while, I should, I should say like at least probably three months that I had sent people to and whatever, wait at the tippy top, the word clarity was misspelled. I was like, this has to be a joke. Like, how is this real life?
I can't believe I miss that, whatever. I mean, And I used to do things like I was like an English major. I used to do copy editing that like, and I feel like Erika from before, uh, who hasn't, you know, spent a lot of intentional time, like working on myself. I mean, there was a part of me that just had this shame flare that came up, but then the other part of me, like new Erika was like, you know what.
It's all good. It's fine. Like nobody else's perfect. I don't expect other people to be perfect. It was an honest mistake. It's been there, it happened like I'm going to go in, Oh, you know, I'm going to change it now. And it will be fine moving forward, but it is what it is, but Oh my gosh. In the past, like, having worked with, uh, in corporate retail before where literally the goal is that like the visuals in the store, it needs to be perfect.
Like there is, there is a rubric of perfection and it is supposed to be that way. And so it's like working for myself and putting out my own stuff, it, it takes a lot of work to be like, this does it. Hey, Hey Erica, like, as you're working on this, this doesn't have to be perfect. Like chill out, girl, you know, calm down, take a step back because there is no like regional, you know, manager, whomever that's gonna come by and be inspecting my work and you know, get, uh, giving approval or not approval ratings to my performance, but that is a really hard, hard thing to unlearn.
Christine McAlister: Totally. And I think that like, we are also really hardest on ourselves, right? Like we're, we have, might have grace for a lot of other people and probably zero for ourselves, you know?
And so I think, I think that a huge part of becoming a successful entrepreneur is really, really embracing the motto done is better than perfect, like that lesson, any successful entrepreneur, if you ask them, Oh, tell me about the times that you misspelled something or put out an email that had this or whatever failed at that.
They will have a laundry list because they remember them. Right? Because it mattered so much, but. They kept going instead of being the ones who stopped or never put it out there because it wasn't perfect. And, um, I just did. Um, an interview with Pat Flynn he's a big-time Casper. And, uh, right before it, we were testing the tech, um, my team and I, and we realized that it wasn't going to show up at all the way we thought it was.
Um, and it was, it was going to be a hard thing to manage and like, it was too late. It was too late. Pat was showing up in like 15 minutes and I just found those words coming out of my mouth then is better than perfect. And I was like, Well, that's interesting. Christine from four years ago would have freaked the freakout.
Like I would be sweating, pitting out, you know, like all red flushed, whatever, because it needed to be perfect because he's a huge name because it was so excited and I wanted it to be perfect. And I was like, you know what? I really have embraced this. Like I, like you said, I can see the change. I can talk myself into like, no, we're showing up, we're doing our best. Like, this is fine. Done is truly better than perfect.
We all have those experiences. Maybe, maybe someone listening today is like, Oh, I've been telling myself it needs to be perfect before I put it out there. Like, I hear that all the time with offers. You know, I can't until I have a sale, a perfect sales page.
Well, guess what, how long have you been telling yourself you need that sales page? Probably so long that you've missed out on a bunch of sales. You know what I mean? So it's, it is what is the easiest way to, for you and your personality to get it out there, to do whatever your goal is, build your list, sell the thing.
We start the business, whatever, what's the easiest way. Not what's the like. No, I dunno, smartest way, according to XYZ guru. Right? What's the easiest way; that is how you overcome perfectionism.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I think, uh, you know, there are those people who we all have in our lives, who we've been following along with forever and not even just in business, but it just could be somebody that you, you know, you look up to and you're like, uh, and you see over the years, how they change, how they transform, how they perfect their craft. And it doesn't mean that you only like them as who they are now as this like more advanced version of themselves, but you've liked them all along. And the example that I always use with my people is going back to Denise Duffield-Thomas I love how transparent she is in her work.
And I, I know that the version of her money, boot camp that I bought was the one prior to the one that she has out now. And I love how she, at various points, she has shown the evolution of that course and her offers and everything. And how in the beginning it looked so different. Like she's in. Like she's got like green, you know, money glasses on like really like, you know, like glittery money glasses.
She's got like a green feather boa and just all these different things. And now you look at her stuff and it's so like polished and, um, look, you know, it looks like luxurious and everything, but to see the evolution, like there was never a time when her, after I had, uh, you know, was getting information and wisdom and everything from her.
Uh, there's never been a time where I'm like, Oh, what I'm actually getting from her is better now because it looks more polished. Like, no it's even before, like, even when I was like reading her books, even when I first got money boot camp, like it's always been good, even in its less refined state, I've always found value in it.
And the way that I try to reframe it in terms of selling is like, we all have whatever the thing is that we are trying to serve people with, like, with our gifts, we are by, by being hung up in getting it perfect before we put it out, which I know, you know, is, is a trap. There is no perfect. There's no like there's even no such thing as that perfect level, but every day and every moment that we keep from launching that thing, or, you know, talking to people about how we can help them.
We're actually like robbing them of an opportunity to get that help if they are our ideal client if we can serve them with what we have every day that goes by where you're like, you know what? I'm just going to tweak the copy just a little bit more, or I'm just going to revise the sales page for the hundred and 20th time before I launch it.
Like every day that you're doing that, you're literally robbing someone of the opportunity to get the amazing thing that you can offer them. That is how I reframe it to myself, because like you said, yet, that other person is not going to be as hung up on whatever it is as you are in your own mind.
Christine McAlister: Totally. Totally. And like, not, not shaming you or criticizing you or judging you, like you judge yourself. Right. They're just like, I want the thing, I want to learn how to sell. I want to learn how to replace my income, whatever the thing is. Right. How can you, you know, throw a, uh, a life jacket, a life raft, whatever into the water and pull me out.
Like, how can you help me? How can you save me from my issue? Right. That's something that, um, that's a Pat Flynn thing too, but like, how can you be the person who reaches over and hauls someone out of the water when they're drowning, like with your thing, save them. And, and they really, at that moment are in so much pain.
They don't care if clarity is misspelled, they just want to sell their thing. Right. They hate their job. They want to quit, whatever it is. Like, whatever your thing is that you solve. If you don't know what that is, like, first of all, figure that out. Right. And then tell people how you can like be a human, tell people how you can help them.
I am like an introvert who is very, very sensitive. And you probably wouldn't guess that by listening to this, right. Because he gets so fired up talking to Erika. I love her. Um, and talking about this stuff that I'm passionate about, but the truth is like, it's not about me here. It's about like, I want you to overcome this stuff.
I want you to go out there and kill it because I think. That if we all do what we were made and created to do, then all the needs of the world are naturally served. Like that's how I see it, but they're not when we're not.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I could not agree more. And I think too, especially it's interesting having written a book, which I think there's so many people out there who are like, Oh, it's my dream to write a book.
But you know, then they put all these obstacles in their way and I'm sure writing a book is something that you could perfectionize to death, to death. Like it's simply, you just have to be like, Yeah, done is better than perfect.
It's done. It's going to help people. It's going to help those people who I want to serve, who I can serve. So it's just got to get out in the world and maybe one day there'll be a second edition and maybe there won't, but like, but I just, I think of all the people who've read your book and been helped by that and what if you were still. Like holding it hostage inside your computer, waiting for it to be perfect. None of those people would have been helped. So.
Christine McAlister: It is. Thank you for saying that it is such a mind game to write a book, especially if you're a natural writer, 90% of it is not the actually being able to write it is it is the fact that, Oh my gosh, now you're writing a book so that every word you sit down to type has, or, or dictator, whatever, write out by hand has so much weight to it, that is why it took me a year and a half to get the book out there.
Not because it took me a year and a half to write it. I basically wrote it in like two months, you know, with, with a baby. But the idea of like, Oh, I need to sit down and work on it, work on it today. Oh my gosh, it's a book like that is the obstacle I had to overcome.
And then the book gets out there and then you get. Uh, I've gotten a bunch of great reviews and I can tell you exactly how many, one-star reviews I have. I mean, it's like such a mind game, but you know, to remind yourself something like, Hey, guess what? The people who gave me the one-star reviews, they aren't the people who needed to hear this work.
They aren't the people who were helped by this. That's okay. It's still worthwhile because it would be so easy. And sometimes I do get up and say, Oh, I need to put out, put out a second edition. Now the book's only been out a year. I'm not doing that. It doesn't need to be done. Right. I'm probably going to write two more books before I think about.
Getting it out there, but one of the things that's been really cool about, about having written the book, in addition to it, being able to help people is that now I can help other people who need to get their books out. You know, I have a client who, um, who is just getting ready to do her lunch and I've been able to work with her through the process.
The same process that I went through and her book is amazing. And like, I want to shout it from the rooftops, but I know she feels exactly the same way as me. Oh my gosh. There's a type of wouldn't know I have to redo everything. Right. So yeah, if you want to write a book. It's a big project, but all of these principles apply.
The five-minute principle applies a power hour principle applies the recognizing that, yeah, my book has some typos and some formatting issues and whatever. I mean, every day it sits out there and I'm not redoing it right now because it's good enough to help people. I know that and I get to choose what I focus on around that.
Right. I get to choose what I want to, um, to emphasize. I appreciate you saying that.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I just, I, I, that's how I, I will say that's how I view it now, but probably two years ago and beyond it was, it was so not, I was so much in a, a perfectionism trap and, but I mean, it just, it took that work of consciously turning that ship around.
And it's not to say that it still doesn't clear up, you know, but it does. It's just, you know, you've got to work on it and, and that leads us to the third one self-doubt, which this one, man, I, I feel like, uh, one of the books that really honestly transformed my life is Playing Big by Tara Moore. I don't know if you've read that book, but the reason that it transformed my life was because in it, she's interviewing all these people who I would view from, you know, their background and their education and everything is way smarter, way higher-achieving people than me and going through. And there's a lot of like, I love the, the procrast to learning, going back to that, there's a lot of mention in there of women who are like, I just need to get another certificate before I just need to go back to school.
I just need to work a few more, few more years at it or whatever. And the thing that I realized, uh, that really honestly, was a catalyst for me starting this business was if these women, these women who I would look up to and be like, they're total rock stars like they could just do anything. If they are suffocating under this weight of self-doubt and not putting their gifts and their talents out into the world, they're not making that big leap into that next part of their life, that's going to be of service to others then like what the hell?
You know, it was, it was kind of like, I'm either going to have to let self-doubt destroy me or I'm going to have to find a way to workaround. And I feel like the, the most crushing thing I feel in. And working with people, um, is like you said, like it's not the strategy.
Like yes, we love strategy. We love, you know, strategy is, is super fun and super important, but it's retraining women to feel worthy of having success and so much that, so much of that comes back to self-doubt. So, Oh my gosh. I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions and feelings on self-doubt.
Christine McAlister: Yeah. When you talked about feeling worthy and deserving, right? That goes back to the perfectionism thing that we're going to be found out; that one more certificate will make us feel worthy of charging or whatever. Um, Nilah Wiley has this amazing business where she helps, um, she creates these beautiful experiences in retreats for women of color and these like luxury places.
And one of the things that I know she's really passionate about and the reasons why she does what she, one of the reasons she does, what she does is she said, I want my clients to know and feel worthy of taking up space in the world, taking up space in these places. And she said that and when I heard that I have never forgotten it because I think we all can tell ourselves stories of why we don't deserve to take up space, why we're not worthy, you know, and I think one of the, one of the things for, hmm, one of the things I really believe, which is different than I think the way a lot of people treat self-doubt is I believe that we've already been through something harder than whatever we're doubting our ability to do now.
I've already been through something in our lives that's harder. Um, me personally, the reason that I started life with passion is that I, it took me going through a personal tragedy to get over my self-doubt and do this work in the world. And that I was completely devastated by the full-term stillbirth of my first child, which was four and a half years ago.
And out of that came this realization that nothing worse could happen to me. I was never going to go through anything worse than that. Like, you know, that's the kind of thing that, that ruins people for the rest of their life, right. Very easily could have sent me. Um, down a very different path, but I chose to recognize that if I had already been through that, I could do anything.
And one of the things that I love to have my clients do is to create a confidence resume because a lot of times, we will look at the stuff we've accomplished in, in our jobs and our careers and try to convince ourselves that, okay, well now we can be a successful entrepreneur, but I believe that the crap we've been through in our personal lives, because we've all got, it can also be fuel for building our confidence muscle.
So when you create a confidence resume and you have. On a piece of paper or pieces of paper, all the things that not only you have accomplished, but that you've survived, you're going to look at it that and be like, I am a freaking bad-ass. Why am I scared to do a Facebook Live? Yeah, or whatever. Why am I scared to send this email?
Why am I scared to ask for the sale? Right. I survived this thing. I survived, my parents, splitting up. I survived my own divorce. I survived losing a child. I survived, you know, it was really hard time in my life. I survived, whatever, whatever was hard for you. What if you start looking at that as the reason that you're going to succeed, what if you start consciously cultivating the confidence muscle?
Because it's not an innate trait, right. Research now tells us it's not something that you're just either born with, like those cool girls in high school that I was so jealous of because I was not cool. It's. Are you with your fabulous hair and the guts to diet? Like, I, I really want to see this change like you for women, right.
I want to see us give ourselves permission to take up space in the world. So thank you, Nilah for bringing that out and for doing that work. But like, I just, obviously I'm so passionate about this because self-doubt is crippling so many of us. Right. And I believe that we can proactively change it. Not that we're not gonna have it.
It's more of like a condition to manage than it is something to cure or get over. Right. But we don't, the big shift is we don't have to let it stop us anymore. If it's not, if, if self-doubt and fear, which leads to procrastination, perfectionism, if those things aren't driving the car anymore, then they can, they might be in the back seat coming along and being like, Hey, you remember me?
Remember me? Like, Hey, you going, gonna, let me stop you, but you can be like, I got this because you have done the work to recognize like, I've already accomplished harder. I get to choose what I focus on. I get to get help where I need and want it. I am in the driver's seat, right? When you start to believe that when you start to trust that everything changes.
And I think you and I can both talk about the tens of thousands of dollars that we've invested to begin to learn these lessons of like trusting ourselves, overcoming our blocks, whatever, but it. It starts with a willingness and like a realization that you can a belief that you can, right. And when you believe that you can, then you can decide what the next best step is to whether it's creating a confidence resume, whether it's hiring that mentor, joining the mastermind, whatever, believing that you can is going to open up the next step to overcoming the self-doubt.
Erika Tebbens: Yes, I. I completely agree. Like I just, that, that is totally my core of my beliefs now. I will say, you know, again, it hasn't always been, but I see it. So, so clearly now. And, uh, and it's, it really is my mission to help more women have success in their businesses because of the fact that like, it's like the, the so that they can feel fulfilled, but also like change the world because there are statistics that female entrepreneurs are like the, the rate of the amount of reinvestment in their own communities is so much higher. And I really feel like, yes, like the more that women can feel powerful and empowered and, uh, and be able to kind of put themselves out there and be vulnerable in doing that.
It really makes us all better, like, cause I just, yeah, I mean, and that the confidence resume, I adore that and I do it's, it's weird because I feel like a lot of times, um, people will say stuff to me, like, uh, you know, we'll like, how do you, like, how could you do that? Or how did like, or like, you're, you're brave or like, you know, I could never do that.
And I'm like, what? Yes, you could. I am terrified all the time. Like, that's the honest, I'm just filled with, like, I don't know what's going to happen or, you know, confusion or doubt or anxiety or whatever, like it's ever-present, but the thing, the thing that I always go back to is like, everything is figure out-able.
And, uh, I, my, my friend Colette has this saying, um, whenever she's like, well, I don't know. I've never done that before. So I was like, well, you know, how hard could it be? Like if somebody else has done it, how hard could it be? Or, you know, it's figure-outable so I just, I always go back to that first and foremost is like, if other women are succeeding, in a similar field as me, then why, why not meet it?
All? It, all it is is a matter of like, I just need to figure something else out, I just need another piece of the puzzle or I just need to, you know, give it more time or keep edit or whatever it is. Um, and I think the other thing too is because a lot of times it, the, the like brave thing comes up when people know that I used to be involved with roller derby.
And they're like, how did you do that? Like, Oh, I would love to do that. I could never do that. Yeah. And, and this laundry list of excuses, uh, and I'm always like, first of all, I'm not, I am not brave when it comes to anything like that. I'm not athletic, I was, uh, terrified most of my first whole year, um, involved in roller derby, just petrified, constantly that I was going to get really hurt that I was going to accidentally really hurt somebody else.
Um, and when I actually went to try out, I honest to God had not roller skated in 20 years. And even as a kid, I was never one of those kids that was good at roller skating ever. And, um, but so people are like, well, how did you, like, why did you do it? Like, why did you go to tryouts? And I was like, because playing roller Derby and being part of a team like that, and part of that world seemed so fun and exhilarating that the really hard, scary, shitty part of trying out and realizing that I might not get picked for the team or even scarier I get picked.
And then I actually like have to learn how to do this. And then I'm going to have people flinging their bodies at me and whatnot, like all of that was petrifying, but the idea of being a part of that community seemed more compelling to me than all the other hard stuff. And so I would like, I feel like that's where, yeah, that, that confidence resume then comes in and I've, I've used it going forward and other things where I'm like, okay, I want to succeed in this business. I want to serve these people. So, you know, what does that mean?
Like what are the hard or scary things that I have to figure out or do, or get out of my comfort zone for along the way to make that happen? And whenever that part of my ego is tapping on my shoulder going like, you can't do this. You're going to fail. You know? And all the other main things that says I really do.
Like, I always go back to those things. I'm like my, my go-to default is you try it out for roller derby and you didn't know how to roller skate, which is like a core competency to the sport of roller derby. And I also never played sports in my life. It's the only sport I've ever played. So I, I'm like, if you could do that, you can do anything.
And I will also say I was never great. Like, I was never a great player when I raft. I was never a great ref, but I, but I did it. And I think that, that like, again, like, so, and there are other things on my confidence resume that anytime I'm about to, I don't know, give a talk or. Just do whatever, like even on, um, you know, like a new branch of my business or anything.
Um, I definitely always go back to those things. I've just never thought of, um, categorizing it as an exact, like a specific confidence resume. And I don't have them actually written down anywhere, but that's a really, really great idea. I should make a Trello board and all of my stuff, but, but it is true.
Like I will say in every time and as I keep going and I put more stuff mentally on my checklist, every new thing, like I have a, a deeper well to, to like take a bucket from. In each new scary step, because then I'm like, okay, you know, there's the roller derby thing, there's the divorce thing. There's the, I've been a full-time working parent with a deployed spouse.
Like there, you know, each year adds something new to that list. But I love that reframe because when I'm feeling that self-doubt and I take myself to that place, I'm like, yeah, you, if you could do those things, you could do this and it might not be a success, whatever it is right out of the gate, it might not be perfect, but it's figure-outable. You can do it at least give it a shot, you know?
Christine McAlister: Yeah and the other thing that you're doing, which is like a proven strategy for overcoming these three things that we talked about is you're going back to the why. And using that to overcome the fear and the self-doubt. Right? So you're saying it's more important to me to serve these women, help them learn how to sell, to help them change the world.
Right. Then it is for I'm willing to get uncomfortable because it's more important to me. Right. And I think that's a that's such a valid strategy as well is like, go back to your wife for a hot minute. If you don't do the thing, if you don't make the offer, you know if you don't figure out how to structure this business to work on your own terms.
If you don't, you know, become the expert, like you're not going to be able to help the people have the impact that you want, both in the work that you do and through the income that you want to make. Right? Like sometimes I hear people say something like, well, I can't charge that because I feel bad taking the money or whatever.
Like some of these objections that we hear, well, guess what, what, if you look at how you can be congruent in your values across your business. Right. I have a give-back portion where I like do microloans for women who are never going to hire me to be a coach, but who are re-investing yeah. And their communities in developing countries. Right?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah.
Christine McAlister: You can do that from the very beginning of your business. You can and incorporate that even before your, Oh, I'm just gonna write a check to build a school or like what some of these big entrepreneurs are doing that we aspire to. You can do it now and be congruent in your values with the income that you make and take care of your family.
Like doesn't have to be one or the other. It gets to be both, but it starts with you getting real clear on your why's, right, your values, and then taking action. Like you said, figuring it out along the way, instead of continuing to let fear and self-doubt be the things that define you.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, absolutely. And I do that is why I always, um, like even in my Sell It! Sister course, the very first module is the why, and I know it's at the beginning of your book too because that is, I think, I think having that really strong, why it enables you to tamp down the self-doubt, which again, just like the other two. Nah late.
And you, like you mentioned, they're always riding shotgun. They're always, they're always there. You know, they're always in the back seat, you know, being the nag, telling you what to do, but it's more about coming up with the strategies to cope with them.
And I think having that strong, why is such a good way to help turn down the volume on that, that self-doubt voice. So. I love that. I love the confidence resume, that's fantastic. I'm totally making a Trello board. It's such a great idea. So smart, I love it. Um, I feel like, you know, it's just, it's one of those things.
Like I have to laugh cause otherwise I would cry. But like, do you think anyone's ever told the dude like build a confidence resume? Like, no, it doesn't matter. Just like, oh, I made this thing. It's great. You should buy it like, Oh gosh.
Christine McAlister: Right. It's just like the whole men never get asked. Oh, how do you do it all? Right. Someone helping them do it all. So they don't have, they're not doing it all for us, you know? Like it's just the assumption that they have some help. Right. But for us, it's like the assumption that we are doing at all. And I think like, even just recognizing yeah, again, that difference. And sometimes we can get caught up in like following these men that we admire the success that they have.
Realizing that they created that success or they sell or whatever completely differently than we do. And so that's why it's so awesome that you have this podcast and we are having this conversation because there's a space for us too, right?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There is more than enough space for us. And when, when we, you know, when one of us succeeds, we all succeed and a rising, a rising tide lifts all ships. Like that's really that's, that's my core, that's, you know, a hundred percent you know what I'm all about, and I know what you're all about too, so. All right. So thank you again. I feel like we've, you know, I've taken up a ton of your time, but I could just talk to you for hours and hours for you. You're awesome. So just a reminder for people listening, go to lifewithpassion.com/freechapter, uh, to get the first chapter of her book for free. And where are some of the other places that people can find you?
I'll make sure these are all going to be in the show notes. So people don't have to, you know, pull over to the side of the road and get out of a pen and paper or anything to jot this down, but they're listening in their car wherever. So why don't you tell us some other places that people can hang out with you and learn from?
Christine McAlister: Yeah, so I hang out a lot in my Facebook group, the Passionate and Profitable Entrepreneur Society and on Instagram @lifewpassion, I would love if you have any takeaways from this, I would love for you to tag me.
I want to see them. I want to read them. I want to hear them. I will respond. So be sure to let me know, like your favorite part of this interview, and tag Erika too. So we can, so we can learn.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. We want it to hear from you. How are you, you know, if, if you've come up with any sort of good hack to deal with any of the three things we mentioned today, um, also, you know, tell us that too, because I always love seeing what other people have come up with to help them be more successful as well.
Christine McAlister: Yes. Yes. Great idea.
Erika Tebbens: Cool. Well, thank you. So, so, so much, Christine, I really, really, really loved talking to you.
Christine McAlister: Thanks for having me, Erika.
