Ep. 058: Using Email to Connect & Sell w/ Brenna McGowan
Email isn't dead and Brenna is going to teach you how to make the most of it. Not only can email be more more simple than figuring out social media, but when you nurture your audience with authenticity and simple storytelling you'll have an engaged audience hungry for more. Plus it's so easy to sell via email without being sleazy or pushy, and Brenna's going to explain the ins and outs of how to do it like a pro.
BIO:
Brenna McGowan is an email copywriter, Instagram expert and co-creator of The Content Bar, a membership for female creatives that combines the power of words with scroll-stopping images. The Content Bar takes you from “where do I start?” to writing emails that convert, captions that connect and stories that get people in your DMs, so you save time WHILE your bank balance increases.
LINKS:
https://www.instagram.com/brennamcgowanco/ https://thesocialrescue.com/segues/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/thecontentbarcommunity/
OTHER LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED TODAY:
Get my free No-Sleaze Sales Method delivered right to your inbox: Get Instant Access Here
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Erika Tebbens: On this week's episode, I am chatting with Brenna McGowan of Social Rescue to talk all things, email, and no email is not dead. It is very much alive and it is more simple than you think and it's a powerful tool to speak with the people who are already enjoying what you're putting out and can be potential clients. So a little bit about Brenna, Brennan McGowan is an email copywriter, Instagram expert, and co-creator of the Content Bar, which is a members, a membership for female creatives that combines the power of words with scroll, stopping images.
The Content Bar takes you from where do I start to writing emails that convert, captions that connect and stories that get people in your DMs so you save time while your bank balance increases, which, you know, we're all about that live here at salat sister. We're all about making more money with ease, without hustle or sleaze.
So I think you're really, really, really going to love this episode and. And it later on, I mentioned her freebie, uh, that is all about segues. It's so good you guys, I downloaded it after we, um, hopped off the interview and, uh, I say it later, but I'll say it again here. If you go to thesocialrescue.com/segues, which is S E G U E S you can grab that. Uh, it, there really is just, there's so many good examples of really great emails that your people are gonna want to read and some really simple but powerful segues. And this is, this is so great. As I mentioned in the episode, this is one of those ways you can work smarter, not harder, go to the experts, look at what they're doing learn from them. And it, when they have these freebies, don't just download them and shove them away in your inbox unopened really leverage what they are teaching you, because I know that you are a busy entrepreneur and you don't want to be reinventing the wheel, and the good thing is, is that you don't have to, because she brings the value super hardcore with this freebie, you can also check her out on Instagram @brennamcgowanco and on Facebook, her group is The Content Bar Community. So again, we, uh, she talks later about The Content Bar in here, but if you are looking for those prompts, those pre-made templates, those things to really get you started to help you reduce your workload and reduce your decision fatigue you definitely want to check that out.
Uh, also a little note, uh, if you hear background noise on my end in this, like, uh, the dishes being washed in the sink or the microwave, or, or like cooking noises, uh, that is because my office is adjacent to our kitchen, and in this time of, uh, COVID-19 where everyone in our household is home. Um, sometimes my husband and son forget that I'm over here doing work and recording things and we'll just prepare their lunch loudly uh, so all that to say, if you hear that, um, that's what it is. It should not be too, too loud, but, uh, just wanted to, to mention that at the top.
Um, and also I hope that that is just a good example of not waiting for everything to be a hundred percent perfect before you put out valuable content.
Cause I know this episode is going to be jam packed with value. It's going to give you a lot to think about you're going to learn a ton and this is practical advice you can put to work this week. So without further ado onto the interview,
Hey, Brenda, thank you so much for coming on the, Sell It Sister Podcast. I'm really happy to have you.
Brenna McGowan: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. So I know because you are an expert at email, email marketing, and this is something I feel like there is a. Just so much mystery around and confusion, and also can feel very daunting for people and also terrifying as like a way to sell to people.
So I'm really excited to pick your brain and give people some easy strategies for utilizing their email accounts.
Brenna McGowan: Well, I can't wait. This is, this is definitely my area of expertise and I love emails. So, um, I can't wait to jump in and talk about it.
Erika Tebbens: Awesome. So how, just out of curiosity, cause I always love to hear how people end up doing what they do as a business. How did you come to email?
Brenna McGowan: It's kind of a long story. I wish I keep on thinking, how can I make this super concise? But um, long story short, I worked, I was a stay at home mom for years. I kind of had a bit of a career before that. Back in 2011, I decided to go back to work part time. So I started doing some blogging, some social media marketing, email marketing, and over time, um, back then in 2018 or 17-ish, um, I was working for a company and at that particular time they pulled back on my hours, they weren't doing great. And I had a friend who was, um, one of my best friends was starting a new business as an aesthetician and I wanted eyelashes. And so I was like, Hey, let me help you out with your marketing. And, um, which always makes me laugh that it started over my, my need for wanting to be pretty right.
So, um, I, from there I thought, Hey, I can start help. I started helping her with her social media marketing and email marketing and I was getting people interested and I thought, Hey, maybe I should start a business doing something like this, truly having, I was not on social media for myself. I only helped businesses do it.
Um, and I really had no idea what I was walking into. I think it was a good thing. I kind of went in blindly. Um, and that first year I was in business, I was doing, I was trying to do everything, social media, Pinterest, you know, LinkedIn, I just got overwhelmed and I started to really look at it, like, why did I go into business in the first place?
Like, I want to do something that I like, I can go work for another company and not, you know, do what I love. So at that point in time, at the end of 2018, I kind of, analyze my business and thought, what, what do I love most about what I'm doing? And it came back to the writing and to the email writing. And about that time, I had found Laura Belgray with talking shrimp and I read one of her emails and I was like, this is what I want to do.
Like all I've always had these like little wacky stories in my head, and I thought you can get paid to do this and, you know, get paid pretty decently and I can help people. So at that point in time, um, I just decided to completely pivot what I was doing and really focus on email. And I also focused on Instagram caption writing because they're very, very similar in the way that you write an email or a caption, um, except in email, I think you can sell better and easier.
Um, but so that's pretty much what happened. I just said, Hey, um, I'm an email marketer and started, you know, helping companies really focusing on that.
Erika Tebbens: I love that. And I, I really do love like the long stories, because I think especially with women, we have all these weird winding paths to end up at the thing that we do.
And so I think it's just really cool and inspiring to hear, um, to hear your journey. So in terms of email and with social captions, what is it that you love the most about that? Like when you were reflecting and you're like, okay, I want to narrow my focus. What just like makes your heart sing with email?
Brenna McGowan: I think it's the fact, well, a few things as a content creator. I, I think the part that really, that I love is that you can take a story and tie it to anything. If you know how to do it. And all of a sudden, then you have an, you have endless content, there's content, constantly everywhere you look, it's a little, it's a blessing and a curse some let your listeners know. Cause when you start thinking like this, you truly have sometimes like a problem, like turning I dream, like I was joking the other day. Um, Introducing myself to a group that I dream and email. And I actually dream in like email formatting, because it's this really cool way that you get to share these personal insights and stories in a way that can help your clients and also sell for your business when you do it.
Um, in the way that I teach.
Erika Tebbens: Nice. So I know we're going to get into that in a minute, but, uh, just so that people keep listening and can hear your story. I think we need to debunk the myth that like don't even bother with email, right? So why don't you tell people why they need to keep listening to this episode?
Brenna McGowan: Oh my gosh. Email. It should be one of your number one priorities. When it comes to your email. You know, to your marketing. I don't have the exact statistics in my, with me, but I can tell you email is still the, one of the cheapest and most effective marketing tactics out there. And think about how many of us check our inboxes, um, multiple times a day.
I know I do. I know everyone does. So you, with email, you have a direct channel into someone's home. You're in inbox is very personal where social media can become very noisy and inbox is definitely a more intimate experience. Not to mention the fact that, you know, on Instagram, Facebook, only two to 6% of your people on average, or even seeing, um, you know, the stuff that you're putting out there, Instagram gets to choose who, who you interact with this some degree, right?
It's who we interact with, but in an inbox, you, you have a chance to reach a hundred percent of those people every time you send it now, of course, that doesn't, that doesn't happen, but still statistically on the low end, like super low end 15% of the people that you send email to, um, will, will open it.
The high, low, you know, the high average maybe is 30%. So all of a sudden you're really looking at the fact that you're, you're already reaching more than twice the people than you are, um, on Instagram or Facebook and, and you own your list. And if something has, you know, I was, there was someone in a group that I was in the other day, her Facebook got hacked out of nowhere and she lost everything in one swoop.
And this is just some, and this is someone that I know. And, uh, Facebook would not recover her. So I said, sorry, like you're dealing with, with Facebook and Instagram, it's kind of a, this is a different subject, but it almost amazes me how much we rely on these platforms that could literally go away tomorrow.
And as we know, going through a current pandemic, anything can happen at this point, right? So you want to get people off of your, uh, off of social and onto your email list, the email list, it becomes a true asset to your business.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I, uh, I really liked that. And I think, you know, depending on when people listen to this, like obviously the statistics can change, but I appreciate that you said, you know, 15 to 30%, because I think a lot of times people think, well, Oh, you know what?
My open rate is like 20%. Like, why should I even bother what, you know, like I'm horrible, these people don't want to hear from me. And so it's like, I should just not do it. Like if I'm not doing it perfectly, if I'm not getting like. Everyone and their mother to open my email and read it, then why should I bother?
So I, I really love how you mentioned that as kind of a reframe of like yeah, compared to two to 5%, like, even 15% is still good. It's still better.
Brenna McGowan: And I would say too is even if someone's not actually opening your emails, you're still showing up your name is still showing up in their inbox. So, you know, it's these touch points where we're going at marketing from all different ends, you know, what is it now you have to have at least 20 touch points and I'm sure that point could even be argued. And how many times you have to actually, someone has to see your name, be reminded of what you're doing before they even buy. So even if they're not opening, they're still seeing your name in their inbox. So there's power even in that.
Erika Tebbens: Definitely. Cause like you mentioned, Laura Belgray and I am on her list and I get emails from her and I don't open and read all of them, but like, I like wouldn't hurt stuff pops up in my inbox because even the subject line is usually like funny or interesting, or I don't know, like, I'm just like, Oh, it's it's Laura.
Like, she just seems like such a fun person. Almost like somebody who I know, even though I don't know her. So I really, I, yeah, I like that. I appreciate that because it's true. Even some of my closest friends who are also entrepreneurs, I don't even open all of their emails, but I just like seeing what they're up to.
Like, even just knowing that they're putting something out, like it's just that reminder of like, Oh yeah, they're doing that thing. So, well.
Brenna McGowan: And I also think we don't think about the numbers because even if you have a tiny or smaller list of a hundred people, if 20 or 30%, usually when you have a small list, your open rates are higher.
That's 30 people opening your email and reading your stuff all the time. Like how many clients do you really need for your business? I think we have to reframe how we think about, you know, every person, every person that reads our, our stuff, shares our stuff, talks about our stuff. It, it, it compounds over time. So.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, that's very true. And I think, um, before I have you share how you can get more success with your open rate and retention rate on your list. I think we should talk about that because I know I'm a big believer in like being anti-bro marketing and, and bro marketing is very much like you gotta have that huge list.
You gotta have, you know, 10,000 people minimum or your business's crap and you're going to fail and you're doing it all wrong. And I don't see that to be true at all, but I would love like, since you are in this and you do it, I would love your take on list size.
Brenna McGowan: I, do I think should be always striving to grow your list?
Absolutely. But I, I don't think you need a huge list to be successful. Um, even one of my mentors, who's an email marketer. His list is not more than 2000 people, and I can tell you right now he's killing it. Right? Like it doesn't take a huge list. And I think it goes back to what I said earlier. It's like how, you know, if you had 25 people in a room listening to you.
You know, I think was it Angie Lee? I think, I think had a post about this, um, last week, you know, that's 25, that's a classroom of people. Like we don't think about it like that. So I would go back to once again in every business is different depending on what you're selling, but you know, how many people do you have to have to have clients it's probably, you know, not this huge number.
So going back to really remembering that your, your lists, that you can do a lot with a small list that you shouldn't let the list size, stop you. If anything is, should motivate you to go, okay, 20 people are opening this. All the time. Can I get this to 40 people? You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of power in small numbers.
And with all of you getting 10,000 Instagram followers and doing, you know, having this like need for more, I really have taken a step back and thought, I want to make an impact on a smaller group of people because that smaller group of people is going to be more engaged, more likely. You know, it, it's hard.
It's hard to stay in great contact with 10,000 people, but I can stay in great contact with, you know, a hundred, 200 maybe even 500. So really, really not getting lost in the numbers because that's all it is, is numbers.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, definitely. And I think that, you know, especially if you are service-based and you take on one-to-one clients or you have a group program or something, yeah.
You don't need 10,000 people on your list. Like if you can only work with 10 clients at a time, then you don't really need to have that volume. I mean, is it great if you are selling like a course or, you know, like low something, lower price, that's a bit more evergreen and you're, you're like launching it periodically.
Yes, like I know I have clients who do that, that's their business model and for them, like, they really do need to rely on growing their list a bit more rapidly, just so there's more eyeballs on their products to hit their revenue goals. But I find for the most part with online entrepreneurs, like most, most people are.
You know, one-to-one or one to a small group, not like a course mogul type of person.
Brenna McGowan: And I think too, when we really concentrate on the people that are on our list, I feel like the more people like, and we concentrate on having really good quality content and moving people to our list, the people, right.
When we're just worried about numbers and numbers, the quality people don't come as is all kind of circular.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I, I really love that distinction. I, um, I am a big, big believer in the quality over the quantity for sure. And interestingly enough, one of my clients who does have quite a large list, she, uh, also has a very popular podcast and she will drive people from the podcast over to like free workshop shops that she's doing, or like her content vault, um, of like some downloads and things like that.
And those people are actively like they're listening and then they're hungry for more and they, and like they stick around and they stay and they're engaged with her because she does like nurture them so well and give them so much value and they love what she's all about. So, yeah, I dig that.
Brenna McGowan: I love that too.
Erika Tebbens: So now we know that email is totally worth it. We know that you can do a lot, even without a giant list, but how do you actually write emails that people want to open and read and get excited when they see your name in their inbox.
Brenna McGowan: This is a great question. And it is the simple answer is storytelling, right?
But I think this is something that people talk about a lot. Like you have to tell stories, but what they don't talk about is, or I shouldn't say don't, but what you don't hear as much as how to tell a story that makes people want to keep coming back and opening your emails. So the first thing I will say when it comes to storytelling is that you don't tell a story, just to tell a story.
I'm always thinking about the reader when I'm going to tell a story. So, um, you, I joke around, like, if you're someone who's just telling a story to tell a story, you're going to become that annoying person at dinner parties. And that right. That you're like, Oh my gosh, stop talking to me and telling me your random stories.
That's not what I want to hear. I'm always thinking about what can I do to tie a point over and make some type of amazing point too, when I'm telling these stories in these emails and the way that you do this is through a segue. So a segue is a transition sentence that it comes in your email. So there's two ways when it comes time for me to write emails that I think about, okay, how am I going to take a random story and really tie it together to my call to action, to my sales message or to my overall point, because not every email has to be a sales message. Um, and so you can take this one sentence and really be able to talk about anything. And so let me give you an example, um, what happens is, um, not that long ago. I wrote a, um, a question about, or not a question I wrote a story about, I have a pug he's 10 years old and, uh, we, he got the boot out of my son, um, Jack's room.
Um, who's 17, cause he's snoring too loud now. Um, my son can't sleep. So I took this really, you know, kind of random story about my dog, that he used snoring too much and I use a transition sentence or a segue sentence to get to my main point. And my main point was you have to rise above the noise. Um, in social media, you have to be, you know, louder than Frank snoring.
And so it was able to take this, you know, simple story that's going on in my life and think about some type of metaphor or analogy, some type of parallel and really line it up. Uh, to my overall message. So when I go through, I will do this one of two ways I will think of, I will have a story that I think is funny or inspiring, and I'll start thinking, how does this parallel against my business?
How can I use this as an example of what's going on? Or I do it from, I do it almost in reverse where I think, um, for example, I wrote an email not long ago about, um, my most embarrassing moment or one of my most embarrassing moments in my life. Um, and so, I was able to go through, um, because I wanted to talk to about in my business, how things happen that embarrass us and how we have to be able to move on anyway.
So I started to think, okay, What is the, you know, what could I take this? Where could I find a story that talks about the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to me and then tie it together? So then I started racking my brain for a story, and this story came up about when I was nine months pregnant or eight months pregnant with my third child and I accidentally tucked my skirt into my underwear and walked through Babies RS. And so here I was able to. Find a story that I wanted to tie together for my business. But when you write like this, all of a sudden you become very human. And that is what, and not only that you're telling a story that people find interesting.
So you might think, Oh my gosh, this is so, you know, maybe this is too, too random to not interesting to your reader. And I will argue, they're thinking about people who watch reality television, uh, like what's right now, key. One of the big things is Tiger King, which I haven't even watched, but it's completely this like random base reality show.
We're nosy. We want to know what other people are doing. We want to be feel when we want to be seen. We want to be understood. We want to know that we're not alone in our quirks and our craziness and so when you can pose yourself as someone who really is empathetic to the reader and therefore, that you understand things that they're going through, all of a sudden, there's this emotional connection that you can't find in any other type of marketing as you can through storytelling.
And I really, really preach to and even going through this this certain time, but it's always that you're able to take your email or you can use this in captions as well, is that you're really able to use an empathetic marketing approach and show people how through your empathy for them, you can help them with your product or service in your sales.
And it's a true demonstration of that when you do that in your emails.
Erika Tebbens: Oh, yeah, that is, that is so good. And I think, uh, I think, yeah, we, we sort of wrongly assume that email has to be this very sterile thing like a very like business-y or very formal thing where you're laying out, you know, all the, all the points and attributes of the thing that you're selling.
And it's just very dry and you're like, okay, here's the link, you can buy it if you want. Instead of thinking of it in terms of like, If you were just sitting down to write that funny story to a friend of yours, like you would just be more loose, you would be more real and more human. And then, and then like, obviously the, on the businessy side, like then you merge it over to the business part of what you do, the thing you're selling, like you mentioned, and exactly and these
Brenna McGowan: Emails, definitely, and even if you are, you know, a larger product base or e-commerce business, you can use stories in different way. Maybe they might, it might not be as personal as I'm saying, but there's always a story to be told a customer story. Um, something that's going on in your business, behind the scenes stories, how you simply came to creating the product.
I mean, there's, there's all of these stories around us that people will find interesting and we'll bring the, it also brings about a brand loyalty because you feel like, you know, what's going on behind the, behind the scenes; you're an insider.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And, uh, Oh my gosh. The thing about the thing about being nosy is so accurate.
Like we really, really do. I mean, I think that's why like, with Instagram stories, the like why they're so successful or when people use them to their advantage is because of the behind the scenes content, because it's not polished. It's not always like perfect or a super professional or anything. It's just like, Hey, it's me with no makeup.
And my hair's a mess and like I'm, I don't know, baking a cake cause why not? Like I'm, I'm just like me being a human person. And I think that people love to see like, Oh yeah, they are, they are just like me or they aren't completely put together all the time. Like they they're just a person. And I think that that really like humanizes us to others.
And like you said, empathize because I love, I love seeing the behind the scenes. I love seeing what is not people's like best foot forward or their, their facade or the professional mask they put on because yeah, I like it. It endears me to them to know like, Oh yeah, they're, they're not a perfect person.
Like they have flaws and. They goof stuff up and they're totally ridiculous too. I like those are the people who I personally connect the most with when it comes to the people that I want to engage with and shop with online.
Brenna McGowan: Yeah, I agree the same way. And I think too, what you said about when people think they have to send these business emails to keep in mind that they be, those all become very static.
Everyone's sending out the super businessy emails, this is how you set yourself apart, too, right? In a very crowded market, you know, it, it set, you hear it a lot, but it truly, you, you are the only person that has your views, your take on thing, your perspective, and this is how you set yourself apart very easily is using your own stories and your own tone, your cadence, all of these, all of these things kind of combined together for this incredible opportunity if you think about it, to be able to talk to someone and show them who you are as a business for almost free.
Like you could, you could start MailChimp tomorrow and be sending out emails and it could cost you $0. So I, I love that as well.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I, one thing I thought of, as you were talking about, you know, even if it's a product based business or a company, letting people in on some of the stories is my husband is a big fan of a company called Saddleback Leather.
He's been following them for years. I don't even know how he originally found out about them, but they really share their whole story. Like the founder was down living in Mexico and he found these people who made this incredible leather and he decided to like, make a bag out of it. And then his friends loved it and like, they wanted more, like, it's like this whole random thing of how he became an entrepreneur. And he had this dog, like his sidekick was this dog named Blue. And like, he would talk about blue and like just, you know, different things about his dog. And we are dog owners and dog lovers. So we were like, Oh my gosh, Blue, like, it's so cute.
And I remember when he posted like that blue hat, like he had to put Blue down and like, I remember being sad. I don't know this dude. I will probably never meet him in real life, but I was like, I felt like invested. Like I was like, Blue like his poor dog and, and it's, it's interesting. And I will say like, that is a company.
Like their stuff is not cheap, but like it's not something that like, we are necessarily buying all the time. But if I know that, like I want to get my husband a really nice gift or something special, like I'm not even going to search on Etsy or anywhere I'm straight going back to Saddleback Leather not only because it's a good product, but like I feel emotionally invested in that brand and it's all through.
Like, I don't follow them on social media. I don't even know if they have social media. It's just all through email.
Brenna McGowan: Yeah, I agree. And I think too, if someone asks you, Hey, I want to get a leather bag. Where should I go to, if you would, you would say that, that right now they've created this little corner in your mind of what they are and who they do by using their story.
I think that's an excellent example.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I love it. So that, you know, I, I know that now people know, okay. Focus on stories and the transition into what they're selling before we get to the selling part. Is do you have a way, like where it can be easier for people to think of? Like what store, like, you know, it's sort of like that, that like writer syndrome, when you go to sit down and it's a blank page and you're like, I don't even know where to begin.
Is there a trick or something that you do to help you think about a story or like if something is happening in a moment, are you like who this would be a good story? Like, do you take a note in your phone? Like how do you do that process of it?
Brenna McGowan: Absolutely. I take notes in my phone. I have a Google Doc set up when a story happens.
Anytime a thought happens that I think that could be related to business. Someone was asking me the other day, like, how do you keep coming up for, how am I going to keep coming up for content in my business? And I would argue there's probably 10 ideas that come through your head. We're just not cognizant of like what it is at that point, what someone says.
Um, so for example, I wrote an email last week who someone replied, I, I like to write embarrassing emails. Apparently, I wrote an email last week about something embarrassing that happened to me on a Zoom call last week when I accidentally yelled at a child and I wasn't on mute and didn't realize it. And so, um, and so she, this person who read my email replied back and told me about a story about that, that happened to her that was similar and had, had I not told her this story, she wouldn't have thought about her story, which then made me think, Oh my gosh, here's another email because. Uh, we, we learn sometimes from inspiration from others. So it says, I am actually getting ready to write about it, but there is this like circular motion. I think that happens with story and content when we start really looking for it.
So she could have sent me that email back and I could have been like, Oh, that's funny. You had to. You had a story as well, or I could think, what can I learn from this reply in this moment about what's going on with her what's going on with human nature? How can I use this? Because it was so interesting.
So I'm always looking at it like, okay, how can I use this story and this goes back to that kind of metaphor or parallels, how, how it's kind of tweaking your brain and thinking, and it does take a little practice, right? That how can I start thinking about these stories and ideas and ways, and I look going back to like embarrassing.
I look for characteristics or features of a story and then think, okay, how can I take this characteristic of being, um, embarrassed and re-put it into something that would apply to someone's business and how I understand them. So how can I take this story, I have a story that I wrote it's warm here right now, which made me think of it this morning, where I wrote last year about this field or there's this Kiehl's deodorant that's $21, which is crazy. It's the stuff is like magic. Like you don't sweat, no matter how hot it is. So I started thinking about like, how can I take this story of $21 deodorant? Right, so expensive and really apply it to business and I thought, you know what, when you have, uh, you know, when you have a product out there that works this well, your people are going to spread it.
Just like I'm talking about it right now your people do your advertising for you. So it's really starting looking like, okay, how can, and then I said, okay, how can you get people to start talking about your business? What can you do in your business that will get people talking about you? So I'm constantly looking for this.
I actually have a guide. Um, I think I gave you the link to it that could maybe go in the show notes. It's called it's my segway guide where I take examples from top copywriters on Instagram, and captions and, um, also emails and really show you examples of how this is done and I pull out and teach you how to start doing this in your own business, because I, once again, it's something that once you get it down, you'll start seeing it everywhere, but it's kind of a foreign concept because we're not really taught to think like this, we're not taught to think in where could I look for a segue, a transition sentence? How can I take a simple story and say, why is this important to you or your business? Why am I telling you this story?
And then really looking for these parallels of why it's important to the person and how it relates back to your business.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I dig that. And I'll definitely we'll mention that, that freebie at the end and it, it for sure will be in the show notes that people can take advantage of that because yeah, I think that that is really great and even just going back to Laura Belgray I knew about her originally, I think, cause my friend Rachel shared about her on Instagram or something and I was like, Oh, this person, like, I love Rachel, Rachel loves this other person, like, let me go check her out. Like it wasn't through a paid ad or anything.
It was just like, Rachel was given a shout out to somebody who she liked and thought her brand and her message was cool, and so then I went and I followed her and then like, now I'm on her list and the whole thing. So that, that definitely works. Um.
Brenna McGowan: And Laura Belgray is the master at this. So, um, she's actually one of the examples, um, that is in my segue guide is going through and showing one of her emails and how she does this beautifully every time.
So, and she, it, coincidentally, she's actually the one that gave me the idea to do the guide that I have because I was on a call with her and she, she said something that sparked something and I'm like, Oh yeah, we need to teach people how to do, or I want to teach people how to do this. So yeah. She's a great example of what I'm talking about.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. She's, she's definitely someone to follow and, and I'm excited to look at your, to download and look at your guide too, because I find like, it's just sometimes I just like, as entrepreneurs, we are making so many decisions every single day that even when you can do it, like, sometimes, I just, I really appreciate looking at like what other people have come up with so I can look and be like, Oh yeah, like that's a great idea.
I'm gonna, you know, like, like that is inspiration for me to now do this other thing, rather than like having that blank page syndrome every single, every single time. Like, so I really appreciate following other people who are expert, and like using the brilliance that you have to be like, okay, here are some ideas.
If you're stuck, here are some things to jumpstart your brain. So you're, you can like kind of get in and get your, that task checked off your to-do list that much faster, but still have it make an impact in the way that you want it to. So.
Brenna McGowan: And once you get into it, I think when you start thinking like this and you start seeing these stories, all of a sudden content creation is going to become a light easier.
Cause you're going to be like, Oh, here's a story. Here's a great story. Oh, I can use this. Let me write this down. So, and I would argue too, even if you're not sure how, if it's a story that you find interesting. I think someone else is going to find it interesting. So even if you don't know how to use it, still write it down because it's, I think I'm going to remember things and I can't remember them like an hour later, so it's the same.
Erika Tebbens: I know. I've just learned to trust myself now. Like if I catch myself saying like, Oh no, I'll remember like, no, you won't put it on a pad of paper, do something. Cause you're definitely not going to remember. Oh, I love that. So, as you were talking about the embarrassing stories. So what it sparked for me in terms of like a segue would be, since I talk a lot about selling.
And selling makes it like, gives people that same feeling of like, if your skirt was tucked into the back of your underwear, like, you feel very exposed. So like in my brain I'm like, Oh yeah. If I was telling that story, I could segue into like, and this is how, you know, it feels like when you're selling and you're not equipped with all the tools and the skills to sell like an expert.
And if you want that, then you can buy my well, but people asked. So now that people sort of know how to start it and they're going to get your guide and they're going to feel better about the segue part. Now the selling part, the part that everyone is like, please don't make me do I know I need to do it, but like, what the heck am I even supposed to say?
I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Brenna McGowan: Well, I think you just gave a beautiful example of how you do it, right? You just simply are able to, it becomes such a natural progression that if you don't sell after a story or something, you you're almost leaving someone hanging right in your, your soul, when I think about stories, you know, you want to create open loops.
You want to create curiosity when you're telling a story. And so, and that won't even go into like your subject line. The subject line is always, the beginning is typically where I use some type of open loops, some type of curiosity, uh, wording that people want to even open my email, right? Then they read my email.
And then all of a sudden, you you're telling the story. If you don't, I almost would argue if you don't sell, you're leaving someone hanging, what's the point of view, even sending them something? We have to look at that really sales is service. And so we are doing our people's service by giving. If we truly believe in a product or service that we're selling, we have a, and I'm sure that you talk about this.
Like we have to sell, we're morally obligated to sell to that person so we can help relieve their pain points. Um, and so by being able to use an easily transition over you've already showed and demonstrated that you understand what this person is going through. You understand the core feeling, whatever the objection is, whatever their pain point is.
You've demonstrated through your story, that you have some empathy and understand them. And then this, by transitioning over all of a sudden you're providing them the solution to the answer, to their problems. So I would argue that selling is a bazillion times easier to do in an email than it is in a caption, like in a caption on Instagram.
I actually don't recommend you. And that would probably be another discussion. So we won't go into, I don't recommend that you sell a time in your captions because people are there for fun for social. This is why I'm trying to get people off of my Instagram and onto my email list because selling, yeah, such a natural progression into the story, and it's just a heck of a lot easier from a user, a user standpoint, a UX perspective, because all they have to do is click, right? And Instagram, we're trying to get someone to read, to go to link, their bio, yeah? Then maybe go through some type of linktr.ee scenario. Like it's a lot harder to get people to click over and move them off and then go through a sales transaction where email, all they have to do is click over, you're providing them the solution. And here it is.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, that is really true. And I think any of those, any of those gaps where people have to stop what they're doing to go and find your thing. It's so easy for people to fall off, even if they really want it. Like, if in that moment they get distracted with something else on their phone, especially since we're usually like scrolling Instagram, like on our phone.
Uh, it's so easy to lose someone. So that's a great point about like, if it's in an email, they can just click the link right there and they can go make the purchase or put in their application for the thing or whatever it is. So I love that. And, so, do you feel like, because in the first part you're talking about, you know, being very human and being very relatable and again, I think that there's this misconception that the sales pitch has to be this very like formal thing.
How do you approach the pitch part of it? The email.
Brenna McGowan: Well with the pitch part, I usually, I think about what their, their pain or their objection is, and really speak to it. I'll give you an example of one that I did, um, for my membership. And this one's kind of silly, but I talked the subject line in this email that I wrote was, uh, I always, I love examples.
So that's why I'm giving it, um, is please pee on me if this happens. And so that was my subject line, right? So most now that might not be a subject line everyone would use, but I was talking about a time that I was stung by jellyfish, I'm on my honeymoon. And then I related it back to when, um, when there was a friends episode where Chandler, uh, pees on Monica to relieve the stinging of the pain.
And so I was just talking about like, the pain was so horrible that I would have done anything to have some relief, you know, like I would have even let you pee on me at that moment in time. Cause it was very, it hurts so bad and all of a sudden, so my segue at that point was you might feel this way about your content planning.
This, you might feel this way about writing emails, having to come up with constant ideas. And so from there, I, I just simply posed. My, so my membership as a solution to this problem that I had talked about in detail. So your, your transition over is you're, once again, providing some type of relief from pain, you're helping someone overcome something.
You are helping them with, you know, helping them imagine where their business could be in six months, if they use your product or service, what their life could look like and it just becomes this like really natural. I wouldn't overthink your sales message. What can you take from what you're talking about and say, hey, you know, I can help you come, you know, if, if, if content planning is, you know, this pain and burden that you want relief from, I can help you. Here you go, that's it. Like, I would not overthink the sales message too much. I think we, we kind of start freaking out, like, how am I going to, you know, do this? And yes, we have messaging overall, but when it comes, this is one email, one salesy, right?
Like, think about how you can just say here is the solution and here's how I can help you. Here's the link and you're done.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And, uh, first of all, I would love to read that email that cracks me up. That is, that is such a, uh, as such a perfect example of everything that you've been talking about so far, like it opened with a good hook.
It was funny and like engaging and people want to read more. You did like a very simple, seamless transition. And then it was a very like low obligation pitch. Like it was a very human. Pitch of just like, if this, if like your business feels like you're getting stung by a jellyfish, like I have this thing and it can help are some of the details.
If you want to learn more and join, like click right here. Like, it's just very, it's like, as if you were talking to somebody at like a networking event or something casually, it's not all like robotic and serious and.
Brenna McGowan: Yes. No, absolutely not. This is very like, Hey, here it is. And I can totally help you. Like, how would you tell a friend, like, Hey, if you feel, if you're overwhelmed, like I wouldn't use this wording exactly.
But if you're overwhelmed with this, here's, here's something I can help you with and how you would tell someone. So I think that's a great example.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I, Oh my gosh. I love that. That's so great. So.
Brenna McGowan: I'll say I'll send you that email, that lacks the fan favorite, for sure.
Erika Tebbens: I love it. I love it. I think too, like, just as an aside.
So my friend, Rachel, the one who I learned about Laura Belgray through she, uh, her business is called RKA Inc, just yesterday, she did this amazing gif workshop and like, she makes all these gifs and she has, uh, this funny YouTube show called Awkward Marketing. And she is really like.
Brenna McGowan: I just heard about her. Like I have to go look her up. I literally just this. So now you've told me I got to go.
Erika Tebbens: So now I'm organically telling you. But she, she makes all these gifs. And so another mutual friend of ours, like pressured her into doing this workshop to teach people how to do them. And one of the things like I use a lot of gifs in my emails, because part of my, like part of who I am as a person is like, I just fun is like, uh, an important value for me.
And like, humor is an important value for me. And so it's part of my brand as well. And so like gifs just sort of follow in, into that like realm. And I really love, like, I know it's, it doesn't necessarily make sense for like every single person's brand, but I love reading stuff from her and some of my other friends who have these, like other kind of funny relatable elements to them that don't make it feel like, Oh, this is a very serious email.
Like even if they're selling something that is serious or solves a very like serious problem. If, if there's like this element of humor in there, I just really, and like realness. I just really dig that.
Brenna McGowan: Well, and I think, and not every, I wrote an, uh, an Instagram post last night, which kind of speaks to this too.
It doesn't have to be. All humor either we can still use. Uh, and I talked about how yesterday, I literally cried in Walmart. Uh, like I was having one of those overwhelming days, but I was able to interject some humor, like, Oh, like, you know, I, I wasn't so destitute, I couldn't stop him by myself that's $3.86 cents takes top.
Right? Like you're able to kind of talk about these things. And I think that's a great example, too. You're able to fuse this reality somewhat serious, but somewhat funny through all of these stories and that's really this blend is how we all become this unique person. So.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I really dig that. So the final thing I want to ask you, because it's something that I come across all the time when I'm working with people is.
How often should I be sending these emails? So if you, if now they've gotten over the hump, hopefully of like knowing what to talk about and they're going to feel more confident going forward in that. Is there a best practices or like you shouldn't wait to like a certain amount of time or does it not really matter?
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Brenna McGowan: I have a few answers, but the first one is you can send an email as often as you can send something interesting that people want to open. So. You know, you, there are marketers out there who, um, that, you know, email once a day and people open them, there are people who email once a week.
Um, there are Laura Belgray, she does three times a week. You know, it doesn't, there's no like perfect rule of thumb. However, you know, I went and send an email just to send an email. I would say at minimum everyone's goal should be once a week. Um, and I would also argue, um, and I don't say this to be like rude, but if you're, if you're sending, if you're writing on Instagram more than once a week, you have no business to not be emailing your list once a week, because you already have content, you can repurpose it, right?
It, it, I read a post about this the other day, like. Everyone is overthinking this email thing and let's like, take the work out of it, take an Instagram post, you know, especially if you have some type of value in there and just, you know, do an intro, get it off to your list, like people.
And it's actually, in some respect, I wouldn't do that. Every time, but you know, people need to see things more than once. Or I might read something and skim through an Instagram, but then it shows up on my inbox and then I really read it. Right. You can repurpose this content. But I would say at minimum once a month, because at, at once a month, people are going to start like, be like, why in the world is this girl in my inbox?
Right? Like, they're not going to know why you're there. We're so busy that we're getting flooded with messages you want to, you want to stand out and by doing something, what I would say at minimum once a week, the other thing too to mention is I actually have, um, someone who I, uh, a friend who had helped and she had told me she like, the more I email, the more I actually sell.
Right? Like that's in, uh, the more she sells, the more she gets responses, the more you're in someone's inbox, the more you become a part of their daily lives and expect you to be there. So don't, I wouldn't, I all the time here. And I have clients, I have to like beat this through their head. I don't want to bug people.
You're never bugging people when we're providing value. You're never bugging people when you send a story and you're helping them. You're never, you know, you're never bugging them when you're giving them a sales opportunity. That's a solution to their pain points. And if you are bugging them, they're going to unsubscribe, which is okay. That means they're not going to be your client anyway. And they're, they're kind of doing you a favor, even though it stinks. So just keep in my bag. Absolutely. If you can get something going where it's once a week and it doesn't have to be longer over complicated every time. Um, this is what to get a different discussion.
We could go into some point, but there, there are different personality types out there. So some people might enjoy just getting an quick email. Hey, did you know I'm selling this this week? Here's a link, but next week you tell a longer story, you can mix all of this stuff. And I do try and mix things up to some degree because anything we do constantly becomes noisy and staticky.
So it's good to kind of have something different that shows up that makes them go. Oh, okay. Um, I, once again, I love Laura Belgray so much, and she talks about how no one ever argued that an email too short. So, um, it doesn't have to be this long, over complicated thing every time you send it. So really, really try and take this advice and apply.
Okay. How can I do something and repurpose and just make it easy on myself. It doesn't have to be hard. It should be easy.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Oh, what a. Awesome. Amazing note to end on, because I feel like that is what that is really what people need to hear so much. And, and also the thing about like standing out and cause my like my whole thing is like, like you said, like nobody, nobody is you, nobody is going to have your special sauce and flavor that you put on what you do, even if you have competition, like you have competition, I have competition, but at the end of the day, nobody is us. Like nobody else's emails that competes with us are going to sound identical to us because we are our own people and the people who resonate with us.
Do so because of us. And so like, even if they're not necessarily like throwing money at us every single time they open an email, it doesn't mean that they're not excited to read it and hear what we're up to. And just like, sort of be along for the journey and, and tell other people about us and, and things like that.
So I think that that is. That is really great. I, I jotted down the you're you're never net, like you're never bugging people if you're giving them value. And I, I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.
Brenna McGowan: Absolutely. And I think too, even if people aren't buying from you now, but they stay on your list. You don't know when they will be a client.
Sometimes it just takes people longer. Um, my, my email mentor, Chris, talks about problems maturing over time. So someone who might not have a problem yesterday could have a problem tomorrow. And the person that's showing up and being there and putting out the content and in their inbox is the person they're going to buy from when that time comes.
Be the solution already there ready, ready, and waiting when that time comes for, for them to buy.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I, uh, that is a really, really good point because I know like right now, obviously it's the we're in the first full month, generally speaking of like locked down, like we just ended the first full month of pretty much the whole country, like being in lockdown for COVID.
And I think a lot of people. You know, really did end up retreating. And for some people, like that's what they needed to do for their, their mental health and, and everything and their sanity. But I actually noticed like, I didn't have a big strategy of like, like, I don't necessarily plan things out super, super far in advance, but I just, I made a commitment to myself.
Like even on those days that were hard where I was like, Hey, I'm here, I'm having a hard day. Like, it's not things aren't great, but have just that showing up of being like, Hey, I'm here. Like I am still here. Like we're still here. If you, if you need me, like. I'm here, not even for like a spend money with me, but just like, uh, I'm going to be here and I'm going to be giving you value.
Even if that value is well, today was a really hard day. Like I'm hoping tomorrow is better. And I was so surprised, like just responses to emails, responses on Instagram, people who have been on my list for awhile and then did buy from me. And I was like, Whoa, that like, it was total proof of what you are, are saying of just like show up, be human, be yourself, give value, like entertain. If you, you know, with ridiculousness or funny stuff or anything like that. And then like allow people the opportunity to get their problem solved with you. And it. It really does. Like, it really does work. It almost feels like magical.
It almost feels too easy to a degree, but I think that, that's what I think that we get, um, because you can go, so, so, so deep into the world of like copy and copyright, you know, like copy editing and sales language. Like it can go so far down that I think that we over-complicate it too often and think that it has to be perfect and it has to be this certain beautiful way or else it's just like, nobody's going to care, which is just not true at all.
Brenna McGowan: Yep. I agree. And I think once I feel for Laura, I'm going to tell her like my whole, uh, my whole podcast is about you, but she talks about like being prolific, like the more you put out, the more you see what people respond to. And so I grabbed, as you were saying, like how you just put things out. Even when you didn't have a great day.
And I was thinking in my head, like, I bet you, she had a great response because she, she was sharing what so many of us are feeling. And that is like this basic human connection. And the same thing with me, I'll share a, I wrote an email last week about when Harry Met Sally, the movie. Um, and I got responses from people I didn't even know were on my email list because I wrote something that, that was at one point, that one trigger that really, they were like, Oh my gosh, I love that movie.
And I'm going to start and I'm going to reply. So you just never know what's going to hit. And that's why I'm putting this, putting these things out there is how, how you kind of learn to where your copy should go. So I think we think, Oh, we have to have our copy and messaging down. And I do copies like the basis of everything we do in our businesses.
But sometimes we figure out what that copy is through just putting things out there that are imperfect, weird, funny, inspirational and we kind of learn from that.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. It's, it's the clarity comes through action, which is, yeah, I sort of like live, I live and breathe, uh, even though, cause I, I deeply want to perfectionist everything, but I'm like, no, just you just gotta do it.
Like just put it out there. Um, I love that and I will say like part of why I was mentioning like the consistency is like, you are somebody who's very prolific and you're very consistent. Like I became connected with you on Instagram and I see you, you know, like, you're posting regularly and it's like, you're giving value.
You're really showing up for your people. And I even see like you engaging on other, like people that we mutually follow, like, like, Oh, there's Brenda, like, it's, it's just awesome. Like, you are a presence and you, you really practice what you preach. And I never have felt like, Oh, you're just like this weird, like person who's just trying to like get money out of everyone. Like, I felt like a real human connection to you on a social media platform. And so I love it and I, I love the work you do. It's, it's super important.
Brenna McGowan: Thank you so much. And I will say I am consistent, but I am not consistent in lots. So that's a good thing way to end it too, is like, you know, you, I'm consistent with my email.
I'm consistent with my posts, but I'm not consistent on LinkedIn, Pinterest, Facebook, maybe those things will come, but for now I decided this is what I can be consistent with, and I stick to that.
Erika Tebbens: Same, same. Yeah. I, I, that's a conversation I have every week. I'm like, I have a lot of LinkedIn notifications, maybe I should go in there and then I'm like, I don't really feel like it maybe tomorrow. Like this is a con it's a constant loop. Yeah. So definitely. And, and I've had many a week where I'm like, okay, oops gets the, email's not going out this week. Like this is not happening, but yeah, I certainly like.
Brenna McGowan: And don't, and if you do, if you're somewhat, unless you haven't talked to your list in forever, like don't send that email that's like, Oh, I haven't been around in a while like no one probably realize it it's just like slide back in. Right? Like don't, don't call attention to it. Just say, Hey, you know, um, this is when I, Hey, I've been around like, they most people won't notice.
Like if you, now, if you've had a list that you haven't touched in a year, you might have to like, let them know who you are, but if you skip a week, no, one's going to notice, right? It's not, it's not a big deal.
Erika Tebbens: Definitely not. Well, this is awesome. So I know that people can find you over on Instagram for sure.
And your, uh, the download that you mentioned is at thesocialrescue.com/segues which is spelled S-E-G-U-E-S. Um, and then why don't you talk a little bit about The Content Bar to let people know where they can find you and learn even more about what you teach?
Brenna McGowan: Great. Well, this is a monthly membership that I have I actually partnered with A. Oh, it's super amazing and talented photographer because in our marketing, we have to have this mix of images and copy and how we talked about you're stuck. You don't know what to say. You don't know what, you know, what to put out there. So we created what we in our minds, and that's why we call it The Content Bar, like this bar of content, where you can come and be able to get inspired. We have caption ideas. We have images that you can use.
Um, I, we give weekly email prompts, so if you're someone who's getting stuck on what to do for your emails, I tell you exactly what to say. Um, in your own words, I give you the structures. Um, we have content calendars, hashtag ideas. So it's this place that you can come and really just be inspired and be able to push out a little bit more content and not be sitting behind a computer wondering what the heck am I going to post today? What am I going to say? What image am I going to use?
Erika Tebbens: I love that because yeah, again, we like, sometimes you can know all the things. You can know the why behind all the things, but like when you're busy and you're making 12 million decisions a day, it's just so nice to have somebody else be like, Hey, you should just talk about this.
Brenna McGowan: Yeah. And that's what I joke about we do the thinking for you. And I think it's a great resource because even for myself, sometimes I might like it. I have a million ideas, but sometimes I need some direction on which way I need to go or how to focus this in. And that's the, our membership is the solution to that is just like, okay, how helped me round get, figure out in my head where I need to go this month.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I it's so smart because it just makes you use your own time and your own business more wisely, especially if you're somebody who's like, well, I can't yet hire out a full-time social media manager and email creator and all of this, like you're still DIY buying it, but you like, you want to be more efficient and more effective.
So I love that you have the option for people. Um, all of that will be in the show notes, but yeah, I would, I would highly encourage savvy entrepreneurs who want to get more traction with their marketing to go check out Brenna and The Content Bar.
Thank you again so much. This is a really fun conversation.
Brenna McGowan: Thank you so much for having me.
Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the, Sell It Sister Podcast. If you loved it and you want more subscribe so that you never miss an episode and then head on over to sellitsisterhood.com to join my free Facebook community group. And as your mama said, sharing is caring.
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